Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

In the latest season of Revisionist History, Malcolm Gladwell is looking at the origins and consequences of mistakes—why we make them, the context in which we make them, and what happens after we make them. Years ago a music producer named Irv Gotti—a hitmaker for Jay-Z, Ja Rule, and Ashanti—was tapped by Sony Music to make a record with Jennifer Lopez. They wanted a big hit. And Irv delivered. But then he made the biggest mistake of his career. Find more episodes of Revisionist History wherever you get podcasts. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The magic of Bruce Hornsby isn't just that he's one of American music's great piano stylists — or that he wrote one of the most unlikely pop hits of the 1980s, a song about racism with two improvised solos that nobody at his label thought should be the single. It's how relentlessly he's kept moving, long after he had any commercial reason to. Hornsby grew up in Williamsburg, Virginia, and got discovered playing a steak and ale joint across from the Hampton Coliseum by Mike McDonald. He scored his first big hit in 1986 with "The Way It Is. What followed was a long, restless second act: teaching himself two-handed independence by scheduling benefit concerts just to give himself a hard deadline, making jazz records with Jack DeJohnette and Christian McBride, bluegrass records with Ricky Skaggs, and going deep into Shostakovich fugues that now shape everything he writes. On today’s episode Bruce Headlam sat down with Bruce Hornsby at the piano to talk about all of it. But they started somewhere unexpected: a steak and ale restaurant in Hampton, Virginia, in the fall of 1978. You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite songs from Bruce Hornsby HERE. Time-coded chapters: (01:26) Discovering Musical Influences (09:24) Success of “The Way It Is” (15:51) Crafting Unique Sounds and Styles (20:30) Collaborations and Songwriting Process (26:40) Exploring New Directions in Music (33:20) The Challenge of Musical Growth (39:10) Jazz and Bluegrass Fusion (44:47) The Art of Improvisation and Composition See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The magic of Dave Grohl isn't just that he's one of rock music's great raconteurs, or one of its greatest drummers and frontmen of the last thirty-plus years. It's the sheer number of lives he's gotten to live within rock and roll. Dave started out drumming for Scream, one of DC's great, underrated hardcore bands, running in the same circles as Ian MacKaye and the Dischord crowd. Then he joined Nirvana and more than made his mark in one of the most consequential bands since the Beatles, and an indelible piece of Seattle's music story dates all the way back to Jimi Hendrix and Quincy Jones. And then, as if that weren't enough: Foo Fighters. Which Dave Grohl essentially built by himself — Prince and Stevie Wonder-style — writing and recording nearly every note on the debut alone, save for some guitar from Greg Dulli of the Afghan Whigs. On today's episode Justin Richmond sits down with Dave at the Foo Fighters' studio to talk about their twelfth album, Your Favorite Toy. But they start somewhere unexpected talking about a song from a cassette-only solo record in 1992 he made under the pseudonym "Late!" You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite songs from Dave Grohl HERE. Time-coded chapters: (02:20) Recording first album, Pocketwatch (05:58) Formation & collaborative spirit of Scream and the DC hardcore scene (09:53) The Power of Live Recording (20:07) Community in Music Today (28:04) The Creative Process Behind Foo Fighters' New Album (34:04) The Enduring Passion for Music (36:15) Writing Through Life's Challenges (37:48) Cooking as a Parallel to Music (43:39) The Surprising Influences of Musicians (48:42) Exploring Themes in New Music (53:22) The Evolution of Musical Style (57:21) Reflecting on Musical Journeys See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Wyclef Jean may just be the most wide-ranging rapper, producer, performer, and composer of his time. As the lead producer and MC of The Fugees, he helped craft their 1996 landmark album The Score, one of the best-selling hip-hop albums of all time. The following year he released his debut solo album, The Carnival, which included hits like "Guantanamera" featuring Celia Cruz, and the platinum-certified single "Gone Till November." As a writer and producer for other artists, Wyclef is behind Whitney Houston's "My Love Is Your Love," Santana's chart-dominating "Maria Maria," Shakira's global smash "Hips Don't Lie," and Destiny's Child's breakout single "No, No, No." Today, we're bringing you a special episode: a live conversation recorded at the On Air Podcast Festival, where Justin Richmond was joined by special guest host Sam Sanders to sit down with Wyclef. They get into what it was really like in the studio with Whitney Houston, how The Fugees shaped their sound while recording The Score, and the wisdom Wyclef would pass on to his younger self about what makes a great creative collaboration. You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite songs from Wyclef Jean HERE. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Jessie Ware has always moved between worlds. She's a British soul singer who spent the early part of her career making intimate, understated records. Then, in 2020, she released What's Your Pleasure? and morphed into a full-blown disco goddess. The record received widespread critical acclaim, earned Jessie her first top-three album on the UK charts, and was nominated for British Album of the Year at the BRITs. Today Jessie traces that sonic evolution back to an especially ripe creative period in her life, when she launched Table Manners, the podcast she hosts with her mom Lennie. Table Manners has become one of the UK's most beloved shows, racking up over 60 million listens, and in turn gave Jessie a new kind of confidence. This month Jessie is releasing Superbloom, her sixth album. As she has since What's Your Pleasure?, Jessie A&Rs the record herself, staying carefully in control of every creative decision. Her production team included core collaborator James Ford, the producer behind landmark records with Arctic Monkeys, Depeche Mode, Florence and the Machine, and Blur. As well as three-time Grammy winner Stuart Price, best known for producing Madonna's Confessions on a Dance Floor and The Killers' Day & Age. On today's episode, Leah Rose talks with Jessie Ware about how Superbloom was born after a particularly difficult year filled with illness and loss, and how that led to an album that sounds like pure joy. Jessie also talks about channeling Grace Jones to slip into a sexy persona to record sultry new songs like "Ride" and "Sauna," and she explains how Minnie Riperton and Stevie Wonder inspired her to make her private life public like never before. You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite songs from Jessie Ware HERE. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Patrick Watson first came to international attention in 2007 when his album Close to Paradise won the Polaris Music Prize, Canada's most prestigious award for a Canadian album. Over the course of his career, the Montreal-based singer and composer built a devoted following through his orchestral pop arrangements, his remarkable voice, and live performances that blend intimacy with a theatric sensibility. Watson's music has found a second life far beyond his core fanbase. His song “Je te laisserai des mots" became a viral phenomenon years after its release, accumulating over a billion streams after being discovered by a new generation on social media. His film and television work has brought his sound to audiences worldwide, including his score for the acclaimed French-Canadian series Les Pays d'en haut. Today Bruce Headlam talks to Patrick Watson about making his playful and adventurous new record, Uh Oh—an album he recorded after recovering from a vocal chord hemorrhage on tour. Because of his injury, Patrick chose to feature a ton of guest artists on his new album in the style of hip-hop features. Patrick Watson and Ariel Engle, also known as La Force, kick off the episode with a beautiful live performance of the song, House On Fire. You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite songs from Patrick Watson HERE. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

There are a few artists we wish could've come on Broken Record, people who were sometimes misunderstood or hassled by the press and would have had the opportunity to be heard. One such artist is George Michael. Since that's unfortunately not a possibility, we're doing the next best thing—sharing a preview of a new podcast, Big Lives, and a special episode about George Michael. Every week on Big Lives, hosts Kai Wright and Emmanuel Dzotsi dig into the BBC archive to explore the story behind the icons who shape our culture—trailblazers like David Bowie, Amy Winehouse, Muhammed Ali, and Tina Turner—and better understand how each legend set the stage for our contemporary cultural landscape. George Michael was more than scandal headlines and tabloid punchlines. He was one of the defining pop artists of his generation. Kai and Emmanuel trace his transformation—teen heart‑throb, closeted superstar, grieving partner, activist, and ultimately a gay icon who reclaimed the narrative with wit, rage, and dazzling talent. If you like what you hear, find more episodes of Big Lives wherever you get podcasts. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Charlie Puth is a meticulous songwriter whose knowledge of pop music runs deeper than your average chart topper. Charlie, who studied music production and engineering at Berklee College of Music, first gained widespread attention in 2015 with "See You Again," his collaboration with Wiz Khalifa for the Furious 7 soundtrack. The song earned him his first three Grammy nominations. Since then, he's released hits like "Attention," "We Don't Talk Anymore," and "One Call Away," while also writing and producing for other artists, including co-writing and co-producing "Stay" for The Kid Laroi and Justin Bieber. His fourth album, Whatever's Clever!, comes out next month. It's his most honest work to date, and as he'll reveal on this episode, the songwriting is far more personal than anything he's released in the past. On today's episode, Justin Richmond talks to Charlie Puth about making Whatever's Clever! and the process of recording a song with Michael McDonald and Kenny Loggins. He discusses the clever way he convinced Kenny G to appear on the album. And he sits down at the piano to demonstrate how gospel chords always find their way into pop music, revealing the harmonic foundations that shape his songwriting. You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite songs from Charlie Puth HERE. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Black Crowes are one of the great rock bands of the last 30 years, and now they're finally getting their flowers: a 2026 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame nomination, alongside Lauryn Hill, Phil Collins, Wu-Tang Clan, and Oasis. To mark the occasion, we're re-running Justin Richmond's 2024 conversation with lead singer Chris Robinson, recorded around the release of their album Happiness Bastards. In the interview, Justin and Chris get into what it was like growing up in Georgia with his brother Rich, their dad's rockabilly career, and how life on the road looks a little different these days — less champagne and substances, more Herman Melville. You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite songs from Chris Robinsons HERE. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Tommy Emmanuel is an Australian guitarist who has spent over six decades mastering the art of fingerstyle acoustic guitar. He's now widely regarded as one of the best acoustic players in the world. Born in 1955, he received his first guitar at age four and he recalls that not long after he knew he wanted to dedicate his life to playing music. He left home to pursue his dream as a teenager and eventually became known for his remarkable ability to make a single guitar sound like an entire band—simultaneously playing bass, rhythm, lead, and percussion. In 1980, Tommy toured with Stevie Wonder as part of the opening act, an experience he's described as enlightening. He's since played hundreds of shows a year and collaborated with artists including Eric Clapton, Chet Atkins, and Tina Turner. On today's episode, Justin Richmond talks to Tommy Emmanuel about his unique fingerstyle technique and how he developed the ability to make one guitar sound like multiple instruments. He tells the story of opening for Stevie Wonder in 1980 and walking in on him jamming with an early LinnDrum machine. And Tommy plays examples of his songs throughout the years, demonstrating the evolution of his remarkable approach to the acoustic guitar. You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite songs from Tommy Emmanuel HERE. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Rodney Crowell has been a fixture in Nashville's songwriting community for over 50 years. Born in Houston in 1950, he was influenced early on by songwriters Guy Clark and Townes Van Zandt. In 1975, he joined Emmylou Harris' Hot Band as a guitarist and harmony singer, playing with her for three years. Rodney became known for his own work with his 1988 album Diamonds & Dirt, an album that made history by producing five consecutive number-one singles. Over his career, he's written songs for Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson, Bob Seger, and countless others, earning him a place in the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame. Last August, Crowell released his twentieth studio album, Airline Highway, produced by Tyler Bryant and recorded at Dockside Studio in Louisiana. Just a few months ago, Willie Nelson released What a Beautiful World, an entire album of Crowell covers. On today's episode, Bruce Headlam talks to Rodney Crowell about making Airline Highway and the emotional experience of hearing Willie Nelson's tribute album. He discusses his formative years in Nashville's songwriting community. He opens up about his difficult childhood in Houston, including his mother's epilepsy and his father taking him to see Hank Williams perform when he was just two years old. And he talks about working with his ex-wife Rosanne Cash, and meeting his father-in-law Johnny Cash for the first time. You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite songs from Rodney Crowell HERE. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

FKA twigs has spent over a decade redefining the boundaries of pop music through her innovative blend of electronic production, experimental R&B, and striking visual art. Her albums LP1 and Magdalene earned widespread critical acclaim, establishing her as one of the most forward-thinking voices in contemporary music. Last November, she released EUSEXUA Afterglow, a companion to her Grammy-winning, dance-forward album EUSEXUA. Twigs' new album addresses identity, bodily autonomy, and resistance. On today's episode, Justin Richmond talks to FKA twigs about her experiences growing up mixed-race in rural England and how going to Jamaican clubs as a teenager inspired her 2022 mixtape CAPRISONGS. She also explains why she's not a fan of TikTok dances, and she breaks down the precise moment when all of the forces align at a rave that have brought her to the realization that this is the most important moment in culture. You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite songs from FKA Twigs HERE. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Ben Bridwell has led Band of Horses for over two decades. He describes the band's sound as "y'all-ternative," a genre that tips its hat to Southern rock's deep myriad of musical influences. Next month, Band of Horses is celebrating the 20th anniversary of their debut album, Everything All the Time, with an expanded reissue featuring previously unreleased demos and live recordings. The album, recorded in 2005 with producer Phil Ek, who's known for producing albums by Built to Spill, Modest Mouse, and The Shins. When Band of Horses started working with Phil, Ben had only been writing songs for a couple of years. He was also new to Seattle, where he'd relocated from Tucson, a city he moved to at 16 after dropping out of high school in his native Irmo, South Carolina. On today's episode, Leah Rose talks to Ben Bridwell about recording Everything All the Time. He opens up about hitting rock bottom in South Carolina before moving to Seattle. He also talks about recently breaking the generational curse of alcoholism in his family, getting his life together post-divorce, and he explains why the upcoming Band of Horses album may sound aggressive despite the fact that he's in such a happy place. You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite songs from Ben Bridwell & Band of Horses HERE. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Grant-Lee Phillips first made his name in the ‘90s as the frontman of Grant Lee Buffalo, a critically acclaimed band that released four albums and toured with Pearl Jam, the Smashing Pumpkins, and R.E.M. Rolling Stone named Grant-Lee "Best Male Vocalist" in 1994, and his band became known for their folk-infused rock sound and their reflections on American history. After Grant Lee Buffalo disbanded in 1999, Phillips launched a solo career, eventually becoming familiar to a wider audience through his recurring role as the town troubadour on Gilmore Girls. Last September, he released his 12th solo album, In the Hour of Dust. The album's title was inspired by an ancient Indian painting Grant-Lee saw at a museum in Pasadena that depicts the twilight moment when cows are led home and kick up dust as night falls. On today's episode, Bruce Headlam talks to Grant-Lee Phillips about making In the Hour of Dust. He tells the story of how a trip to the La Brea Tar Pits with his old friend Michael Stipe inspired his song "American Lions." And he discusses his songwriting process and how he approaches writing lyrics that balance the personal with larger societal themes. You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite songs from Grant-Lee Phillips HERE. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Peaches has spent more than two decades pushing boundaries in electronic music and performance art, inspiring the look and sound of edgy pop artists like Lady Gaga and Grimes. But long before she was known for her outrageous stage shows, Peaches got her start as part of a folk trio in Toronto. In the mid-'90s, after discovering she could become a one-woman band with her Roland drum machine, Peaches began developing a provocative new persona. In 2000, she moved to Berlin and released The Teaches of Peaches, featuring the song "Fuck the Pain Away." The track has been cited by Thom Yorke as an inspiration while making Radiohead's In Rainbows, and has appeared in countless movies and TV shows including Lost In Translation, The Handmaid's Tale, and even South Park. Peaches has spent the last several years creating works for stage and screen, including serving as the subject of two recent documentaries. Now, after more than a decade, she's returning with No Lube So Rude, her first album in over 10 years, recorded in Berlin with producer The Squirt Deluxe. On today's episode, Leah Rose talks to Peaches about making No Lube So Rude and how the album addresses identity, bodily autonomy, and offers an antidote for all the friction in the world. Peaches also discusses how she recently discovered her dad pleaded with a bar mitzvah band to give her her first shot performing live on stage. And she shares her deep love of '70s rock and roll trivia. You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite songs from Peaches HERE. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Jacob Collier has built a remarkable career as a multi-instrumentalist and arranger known for his complex harmonic approach and collaborative spirit. He first gained attention as a teenager posting multi-track videos from his childhood bedroom in North London. In 2013, his cover of Stevie Wonder's "Don't You Worry 'Bout a Thing" caught the eye of Quincy Jones, who began mentoring him and helped launch his career. Over the past seven years, Jacob’s released four albums in his Djesse series—ambitious, wide-ranging projects featuring collaborations with artists ranging from Coldplay to Tori Amos. He's won multiple Grammy Awards and developed a following through his inventive live performances and his willingness to share his deep knowledge of music theory with fans online. Now, Jacob has made a dramatic shift with his new album, The Light for Days. Recorded in just four days using only a custom five-string guitar, it's a stripped-down, intimate collection that explores folk, classical, and jazz influences with notable restraint. On today's episode, Bruce Headlam talks to Jacob Collier about why he decided to limit himself to a single instrument after years of layered, maximalist production. He discusses the custom five-string guitar built for him by Taylor's master luthier Andy Powers and how its unique tuning opened up new harmonic possibilities. He also talks about working with Joni Mitchell, the influence of artists like John Martyn and Brian Wilson, and how growing up singing Bach chorales with his family shaped his approach to harmony. And he performs several songs from the new album live in the studio. You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite songs from Jacob Collier HERE. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Don Was has had a remarkable career moving between different corners of the music world. In the 1980s, he fronted the eclectic band Was (Not Was), mixing funk, rock, and pop in unexpected ways. As a producer, he's helped shape landmark albums for artists like the B-52's and Bonnie Raitt, and worked with Bob Dylan and become a regular producer for the Rolling Stones. For the past decade, Don has led Blue Note Records as its president, bringing new energy to the storied jazz label. Now, Don has released his own album, Groove in the Face of Adversity, a tribute to Detroit and the music that came out of the city where he grew up. On today's episode, Justin Richmond talks to Don Was about his wide-ranging career and why his new album is his first under his name. Don also talks about how working with musical heroes like Willie Nelson, Leonard Cohen, and Brian Wilson in the '90s initially shut down his own creative ambitions. And he reflects on his time at Blue Note and how his experience as a touring artist himself allows him to relate to the label's roster in a completely different way. You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite songs from Don Was HERE. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

When Patty Griffin released Crown of Roses earlier this year, she delivered something both timeless and urgent. It’s an album that draws on gospel, folk, and soul to explore themes of faith, doubt, and resilience. It's a return to the stripped-down intimacy of her earliest work, but with the wisdom and craft of an artist who's spent nearly three decades refining her voice. That voice first emerged in 1996 with Living with Ghosts, recorded on a simple four-track in her Boston apartment. The album introduced a songwriter who could turn personal pain into something universal. Over the years that followed, Griffin’s songs have been covered by everyone from The Chicks to Solomon Burke, while her own recordings have earned her multiple Grammy nominations and a reputation as a songwriter's songwriter. On today's episode, Bruce Headlam talks to Patty Griffin about the inspiration behind Crown of Roses and how grit has shaped her songwriting throughout her career. They also discuss her early days in Boston's folk scene and the stories behind some of her most enduring songs. And she reflects on how finally getting to know her mother at the end of her life inspired her to see her mother's story in a whole new light. You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite songs from Patty Griffin HERE. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Joe Henry and Mike Reid brought two distinct but complementary legacies to Life & Times, their new collaborative album. Joe is a celebrated producer and songwriter known for his atmospheric, deeply literary approach to Americana. Over the decades, he's produced albums for artists like Solomon Burke, Bonnie Raitt, and Elvis Costello, while crafting his own work that blurs the line between folk, jazz, and rock. Mike Reid, a former NFL defensive lineman turned Grammy-winning country songwriter, has written hits like "I Can't Make You Love Me" and has long explored the tender spaces between strength and vulnerability. Their album, Life & Times, captures conversations between two seasoned storytellers, their voices and perspectives interweaving across songs that examine memory, mortality, and the passage of time with unflinching honesty. On today's episode, Bruce Headlam talks to Joe Henry and Mike Reid about how they developed a deep friendship over their shared love of poetry at a songwriter's retreat. They also discuss the artists and songs that first drew them to songwriting. And they reflect on their individual creative processes and how they've found new ways to inspire each other's work. You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite songs from Joe Henry & Mike Reid HERE. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Since getting his start in the late ‘60s, Labi Siffre has had an unflinching commitment to writing exactly what he feels. The result was a debut album that announced a singular talent: a British singer-songwriter who could move seamlessly from jazz-inflected soul to tender love songs, all while addressing themes of love, identity, and justice that most pop artists wouldn't touch. Over the next decade, Siffre built a catalog that defied category. Still, his 1972 song "Crying Laughing Loving Lying" became an international success, and his song "Something Inside So Strong"—written years later in response to apartheid—also became a big hit, revealing the true scope of his artistry. And then there's "I Got The..." from his 1975 album Remember My Song that would quietly become one of the most sampled songs in hip-hop history, most famously by Dr. Dre on Eminem's "My Name Is." On today's episode, Justin Richmond talks to Labi Siffre about growing up in 1950s London and the music he discovered that set him on his particular artistic path. Labi also talks about how he wants music to enliven him and how much it annoys him when people tell him to chill. And he explains why, after decades in the music industry, he's never regretted choosing honesty over commercial compromise. You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite songs from Labi Siffre HERE. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.